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Initial Profiles for testing
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Description

We need some very basic profiles for testing before we can pass around these tool heads.
Most popular materials:
PLA (PolyLite)
nGen (colorFabb)
Bridge (Taulman)
ABS (IC3D)
NinjaFlex

Event Timeline

adam created this task.May 24 2018, 11:03 AM
adam triaged this task as Normal priority.
adam created this object with edit policy "LulzBot Hardware Products (Project)".
adam added a subscriber: anolen.

@anolen can you assist on this one?

Heres a basic achemon 0.1mm layer height PLA profile.

you should just need to change the nozzle size under hot end settings to 0.25mm

adam reassigned this task from tutley to anolen.Jun 4 2018, 7:32 AM
adam updated the task description. (Show Details)
adam added a subscriber: tutley.
adam added a comment.Jun 4 2018, 7:36 AM

@anolen we want to have profiles for testing of just the most popular materials. I'm skeptical about a nylon being used very often on a fine detail tool head, so I would leave Bridge for last. Once we have a profile for PLA and nGen, we can start passing these prototypes around and start getting testing on them.

adam added a comment.Jun 5 2018, 9:00 AM

I changed a couple settings in quality and pushed to the repo under software so we can start getting some other people printing. I did notice that I was having some issues with supports - the nozzle would drag through them and tended to break them off during the print. @anolen is there a way to turn on z hop just for the supports and not for every retraction?

adam added a comment.Jun 5 2018, 11:56 AM

@anolen please develop profiles in order of PolyLite, nGen, ABS, NinjaFlex, Bridge

anolen added a subscriber: karrad.Jun 5 2018, 2:48 PM

For z hop over supports, I don't think so, you will have to check with @karrad.

Can do, Ill post my made profiles here when done, Timeline?

adam added a comment.Jun 5 2018, 3:01 PM

Can you get these done early next week?

anolen added a comment.Jun 5 2018, 3:10 PM

Lets go for one week from today as hopeful deadline, we can touch base on Thursday during the meeting and see how progress goes.

@anolen @adam Z hops is currently activate when retracting, and can be fine tuned to only do it over prints. Nothing for support specific unfortunately

nGen

PLA

I would appreciate any and all feedback on these profiles please!!

adam added a comment.Jun 13 2018, 11:29 AM

I have added these profiles to the repo under software. I will be distributing a couple of these tool heads around the building for more testing.

May I test a .25mm toolhead?

@kforrest We will be able to get one for MER, hopefully tomorrow. If not, it will be in next week for you.

DRobertson added a comment.EditedJun 19 2018, 10:31 AM

After testing various models with 0.25 and 0.10 layer height since Thursday 6/14, I have a few bits of feedback:

Mini 2 with Achemon Sphinx 0.25mm Aerostruder Toolhead -

In general the 0.1 layer height prints came out very well. I added some supports and even dropped the X/Y distance to .5mm and supports were effective and easy to remove. Positive details are crisp at even a very small scale. Negative text and features are even better, with sharper corners and more legibility. Negative text on top, side, and bottom surfaces comes out cleanly. Top flat surfaces especially are very nice.

0.25 layer height working, but quality is not coming out as well. Overhangs get stringy more easily and any angled surface is coming out with some gaps. Surface quality just isn't as good and details are lost, though prints do complete.

I would be interested to see how a 0.20 and 0.15 layer height come out. If there is a noticable difference in layer visability and surface quality compared to 0.1 while printing more quickly. I'd also be interested in comparing a 0.2 layer height print vs the 0.25 for quality.

@DRobertson Which material profile were you using? Ill post a 0.2 and 0.15 edit for testing of that type.

@DRobertson @anolen @karrad I dont think we should be printing at .25 layer heights with a .25 nozzle. This is generally seen as bad practice. I have mentioned it before but once you have a layer height that exceeds 80% of the nozzle diameter, you start sacrificing adhesion to previous layers. I would be willing to bet the parts printed at .25 layer height on a .25 nozzle are extremely weak.

I think it is okay to have a .25 layer (or close to .25) for the initial layer height but all subsequent layers should be less than or equal to .8*0.25mm=0.2mm

I have had good success with 0.1 and 0.05 layer heights with this toolhead

@tutley That is good to know, I havent done any 0.05mm Layer Height profiles but I can get on that.

@anolen be prepared to wait forever for your prints! lol
They will come out looking fantastic though!

@benmalouf @mcoronado @DRobertson @Orias

One thing we may want to consider, is the removal of "high speed" profiles. With a maximum reliable layer height of 0.2mm, larger prints are going to take a long time..

Ultra Fine, High Detail, Standard?

@lansky Thoughts on this one? Do you forsee any customer complaints of their high speed print that takes 2 days?

@karrad i bet some people might complain about it but most people in the 3d printing industry understand that better quality = MOAR time

Ok, to keep things consistent for our customers my plan is to make 3 profiles for each material supported by Achemon Sphinx.

  1. STANDARD - 0.20mm Layer Height
  2. HIGH DETAIL - 0.10mm Layer Height
  3. ULTRA HIGH DETAIL - 0.05mm Layer Height

@anolen That sounds good, although the final customer facing name may change based upon marketing feedback. We will continue with this standard while testing

@anolen I've been running test prints using the profiles you posted on 6/13 for PLA with 0.25 layer height and 0.10 layer height. The only change I made was adding supports and reducing the X/Y distance on supports because parts of small prints were unsupported. I had no problems with removal.

anolen added a comment.Jul 9 2018, 2:34 PM

Thanks @DRobertson! I will have some updated profiles with specified support settings soon!

Wanted to bring this up now: @tutley and I were talking and we think that the Achemon Sphinx should have at least one profile specified for miniature models. Cura profiles compensate for larger scales easier than they compensate for smaller ones and we felt that the Achemon would be highly used for printing smaller and more precise pieces.

That's a great idea, I think there would be sufficient demand for a profile that prioritizes precision at the cost of speed. Customers that want this tool head are generally going to be aware of increased print times so it won't be a surprise.

adam added a subscriber: eBeardslee.Jul 9 2018, 2:44 PM

@benmalouf @Orias @eBeardslee see above and percolate on a miniature-specific profile and if that matches who and how we're going to sell this. If that adds value, we may want to have a miniature profile at release rather than something we expect the customer to tune to their satisfaction.

karrad added a comment.Jul 9 2018, 3:04 PM

I am all on board for getting a miniature profile in there for at least PLA. My only request is to have it completed before alphas so we can in the field testing for both alpha/beta rounds

Orias added a comment.Jul 9 2018, 3:15 PM

This miniture/micro/nano/etc profile could be sold as " The $profile balances precise active cooling, printing speed, and extrusion & passive temperatures to produce precise, true-to-life objects without sacrificing quality and crisp details"
In the past, the smaller they went the more items they'd have to print at once to let each layer cool appropriately. It'll be awesome if this kind of profile eliminates that need.

FWIW, we've been printing both large(ish) things and super tiny things with the .1mm PLA profile and all are coming out great. Only trouble we've had so far is that the bottom layers are a little quick and that has affected bed adhesion sometimes. But we've printed some incredibly small things with great quality. If they can be improved on, great, but IMO that's a tall order. :)

@benmalouf Adhesion issues should be improved with our next Cura release, Z backlash compensation will be turned on by default for all Mini 2 profiles in 3.2.23 and newer. If you have 3.2.22 on your computer, you can activate it manually. (We are using 1mm for distance)

@karrad here is the 0.2mm layer height profile for Ninjaflex for the Achemon Sphinx toolhead:

@anolen Pushed to master, please give it a try on master build and let me know if you see any issues.

@karrad Here is that (tentative) IC3D ABS Achemon Sphinx Profile - for layer height 0.2mm

@anolen ABS profiles merged and pushed to master. Please try a fresh build and let me know if anything is off

Had to share this. This .1mm PLA profile is amazing.

Model Attribution: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1524972

@benmalouf That looks awesome. With your results, do you feel there is a need for a 0.05mm layer height profile? I feel the profile depends on whether we will be claiming a 0.05mm layer height capability. If we advertise it, we will need a point and click experience

Hmm, good question @karrad. The .1 profile already prints things that my old man eyes can barely focus on. I can't imagine being able to see improvements in finer layers. Nice thing too is that this profile has been very reliable so far.

Nice thing too is that this profile has been very reliable so far.

@anolen is crushing it!

@karrad here are the profiles I am currently working with and testing, let me know when I can do a fresh pull.

We're having great luck with the .20 ninjaflex profile too. Although, have noticed that the layer bonding isn't great, at least on small prints. Guessing the temp is lower to reduce stringing? Or maybe too much fan?

karrad added a comment.EditedJul 17 2018, 7:51 AM

EDIT All of those models had manifold and shell issues, removing to save someone else the pain.

anolen raised the priority of this task from Normal to High.Jul 18 2018, 10:07 AM
adam added a comment.Jul 27 2018, 12:00 PM

One issue I seem to consistently have is that supports not attached to the model are often knocked over before they serve their purpose and become spaghetti. I've tried adding a brim, but this is only occasionally helpful. Is there an update that can be made to the profiles to deal with this?
*PolyLite PLA, 0.1mm layer height (since overhangs print so well with this tool head I changed overhang support angle to 75 degrees, but it was happening even at the standard support angle) model was 50mm tall with supports up to 20mm typically knocked over around 5mm into the print.

@adam I havent set the support settings for that profile yet, it was requested that I submit my profiles in progress to keep it as up to date as possible. Sorry!! I will have that fixed next week. 😄

@anolen I have a pretty good start here:

I am hoping this print will finish today, and swing it by for your removal for reference

karrad closed this task as Resolved.Jul 27 2018, 1:48 PM

Sorry, to prevent confusion going to close this one down and bring over the profile feedback ticket.