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extruder harness able to get caught in large print
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We have a large print going on the WE on @bigmansas's desk and had to pull the extruder harness up out of the way once it got a little past the middle of Z travel so that it doesn't get caught; it was dragging on the print. We were afraid of it getting caught by one of the currently hook-shaped features of the print.


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logan created this object with edit policy "LulzBot Hardware Products (Project)".Fri, Jul 12, 12:22 PM
logan triaged this task as High priority.
adam added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 12:23 PM

Did we ever see this issue on the TAZ 6?

@adam Yes. Have you seen the video of what happened to that printer? lol

adam added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 12:25 PM

I have not had that pleasure

karrad added a subscriber: karrad.Fri, Jul 12, 12:26 PM

We ran into a couple of melted harnesses, and we included a zip tie in top center of the frame holding the harness to prevent it.

@logan any chance we can check the length between T6 harness and redgum?

adam added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 12:32 PM

Can we shift that top cable clip more towards the center to prevent this?

i think the taz 6 is less likely to have this issue but it did still happen. The reason i think it is less likely is the corrugated loom is more rigid, and is mounted such that it sticks straight out the back of the x carriage.
the braided loom is a bit more flexible and is zip tied to the back of the x carriage so the slack comes out downward. I think we should probably try to find a better way to mount the harness on the x carriage to prevent this

i will look into a small printed part that will hold the cables straight out the back of the carriage that will be zip tied or clamped to the cable such that there is no modification to existing parts.

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 1:31 PM

@tutley What about another leash that would attach near the connector at the rear of the carriage and the other end on the harness so it just holds it in a U shape with the slack going upwards?

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 1:38 PM

I have utilized a rubber band to demonstrate:

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 1:39 PM

Probably needs to be a bit tighter loop than that to reach bottom right of travel.

lol nice. yea something like that could work.
i am printing a flexy cable collar thing that zip ties around the harness flush with the back of the x carraige that will hold the cables straight out.

adam added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 2:07 PM

Just be sure it clears the frame when it homes Z

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 2:19 PM

@adam I moved it to be zip-tied at the lower slot on that side:
X-Max/Z-Min


Home

(this is just to show the concept)

i installed the thing i printed and it seems to work initially, but i can tell over time the cables could still droop down.

i have slightly modified the xcarriage_cover model and created a rigid cable brace that mounts to it. I wont have time to print it today though.

I think the leash/rubber band thing seems like a last minute mod/hack so i personally feel we should avoid that. but it is an option

@logan heh, at least use the LB green ninjaflex!!!

Looking forward to the changed part @tutley let us know if you need more distributed for testing.

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 2:33 PM

The final part would of course have to be in the classic LB green ninjaflex. Just putting the idea out there, I wouldn't ever dream of putting an actual rubber band in production lol

for sure! and it is a very simple solution

here is what i came up with. There is room for improvement, but this seems to work really well

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 3:22 PM

I like that too. Do you think moving the top center cable clip towards the right more would be beneficial as well? In conjunction with something similar to what you've shown of course.

with this design, having the clip in the middle leaves just enough slack to hit all parts of the bed for the first layer.
i think the clip should be as far right as we can go while still hitting the full build volume and not guitar stringing the cable

logan added a comment.Fri, Jul 12, 3:29 PM

Exact middle on the top frame rail? I will make a jig so we get consistent placement, once we nail that location down.

tutley added a comment.EditedMon, Jul 15, 9:13 AM

@logan will something like this interfere with packaging?

logan added a comment.Mon, Jul 15, 9:21 AM

If what you pictured doesn't protrude past the rear of the rear frame rail I cant see any reason it would.

sounds good!

tutley added a comment.EditedMon, Jul 15, 10:04 AM

@logan it does protrude past the rail but not past the harness or cable clips that are on the top rail. Any concern here? i can get a pic if youd like

If you can snap a quick pick that would be great, doesn't sound like it will be an issue though

Yeah that should be fine

So this would be an additional printed part plus 2x- HD-MS0058 zip ties to AS-PR0167 Final Assembly
@adam could you create a printed part number for those? I think call it Extruder Harness Cable Guide

it would also add 1x m3 brass insert, 1x m3x8 bhcs, and 1x m3 washer

@tutley Does the insert go in the X-Carriage Cover?

yep! i will post the stls here if you want to print one out and test it

BOM change summary
PP-IS0117 X-Carriage Cover with Inserts:
Add 1x- HD-MS0030

AS-PR0166 X-Carriage Assembly:
Add
1x- HD-BT0137
1x- HD-WA0038
1x- PP-GPxxxx

AS-PR0167 Final Assembly:
Add 2x- HD-MS0058

Will need updated insert drawing for the X-Carriage cover to update OHAI here: https://ohai.lulzbot.com/project/thermal-insert-instructions-workhorse/taz-workhorse-edition/
Will need to retake X-Carriage Assembly here: https://ohai.lulzbot.com/project/x-carriage-assembly-workhorse/taz-workhorse-edition/
And retake photos here: https://ohai.lulzbot.com/project/final-assembly-taz-workhorse/taz-workhorse-edition/

@tutley could you push those model files to this branch and tie them to a slice request?

@logan yea that looks good

Oh we also moved the top cable clip, do you want it exact center on the top rear frame rail?

that seems to be the ideal position

@logan @cmerot I know we are already running production. I assume this is something we need to get all the printers updated with? I want to make sure when I update OCA that we don't mess up the inventory system.
@Heather @tomc we are going to need routes for [PP-GP0465] Extruder Harness Cable Guide, Black set up.

@adam @cmerot To me it seems like a safety concern to have the harness able to get caught under the nozzle. Should we go as far as reworking all Workhorse in existence? or flush part inventory for PP-IS0117/related and implement this for the start of production?
I'd like to see more testing on this before production begins, which would mean reworking existing Workhorse printers and having users run a fast full volume print like a box or something to ensure that we've properly addressed the issue.

adam added a comment.Mon, Jul 15, 11:05 AM

@logan to my knowledge production has already begun. This is a question of whether or not we ship out printers without the printed part change. I think moving the cable clip can be done in cal for all the ones not already moved and that is easy to address. Reworking the x carriage with the new part is a heavier lift and, as you mentioned, we have little testing.

Being that we're still in the midst of addressing beta feedback, the product isn't ready for production to begin.
Let me know what you want to do

"adam added subscribers: Heather, tomc.Mon, Jul 15, 10:46 AM
Comment Actions

@logan @cmerot I know we are already running production. I assume this is something we need to get all the printers updated with? I want to make sure when I update OCA that we don't mess up the inventory system.
@Heather @tomc we are going to need routes for [PP-GP0465] Extruder Harness Cable Guide, Black set up."

This product has no 'Used In tab' on it's product card so it doesn't appear to be on a BOM as of yet. Will need to see that to build out routes and reordering rules.

tomc added a comment.Mon, Jul 15, 2:18 PM

@adam when you have this sorted on the BoM lets us know and we can deal with the route needs. In the future...tagging inventory into this isn't the best way to handle routing since we do not deal with manufacturing issues....just the parts and there resting places
.

tomc removed a subscriber: tomc.Mon, Jul 15, 2:18 PM
adam added a comment.Mon, Jul 15, 2:23 PM

BOMs are updated and archived and are ready to set to active as soon as we have printed parts.

adam added a comment.Tue, Jul 16, 8:51 AM

I'm having 10x of the new X covers inserted now. the other pieces should be printed in the next hour or so. I will be distributing the new covers for replacing and testing.

adam added a comment.Tue, Jul 16, 9:06 AM

Rather than test by running 60+ hour prints, I have mocked up a really quick thin wall that I'm placing at the back of the build plate with a z wobble test tower at the front center. At high speed it's estimating 9 hours.

adam added a comment.Tue, Jul 16, 9:33 AM

@logan FYI it took me less than 5 minutes to swap the x cover

logan added a comment.Tue, Jul 16, 3:18 PM

This works well on my unit in MER. Haven't got a chance to run the other one yet.
I have it running burnin right now and cant see any spots where it will droop below the carriage.
I think this is a good solution.

adam added a comment.Tue, Jul 16, 3:28 PM

I'm almost finished with a full height print using a HS+ to speed it up. so far I'm higher than @bigmansas was and no issues yet.

adam added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 7:36 AM

I ran a quick test print yesterday and the new mount and routing piece keep the cable completely out of the way. Please excuse the blurriness of the one photo and the print quality issues.

adam added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 7:38 AM

@tutley @west @logan - I would like to get this merged today. Do any of you have any reservations or further tests you want to see?

west added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 7:39 AM

nope, its a good design and solution

adam added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 8:01 AM

@tutley @west is this going to change in light of T8793 where they are looking at increasing the diameter of the braided loom?

logan added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 8:08 AM

I am quite pleased with this solution from what I've seen. I'd like to push forward on this as quickly as possible.

@adam yea it might need to be adjusted. without having some of the sleeving it is kind of hard to say.

it looks like we are not going to change the diameter of the sleeving now. so this wont be a problem

adam moved this task from Backlog to Needs Review on the Redgum board.Wed, Jul 17, 3:32 PM
adam assigned this task to Steven.

since we aren't changing the size of the braided loom, this is ready to be merged to master.

logan added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 3:59 PM

@adam @west @tutley before we merge we need updated insert drawing for the PP-IS0117 X Carriage Cover

adam added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 4:00 PM

@logan this must be why we review, because I thought that was already in there.

logan added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 4:07 PM

let me look, I didn't see commits tied to the ticket. one moment

logan added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 4:08 PM

Yah thats a negative, the PP-IS0117 drawing on T8707 branch is a couple versions ago and short the new insert

adam added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 4:08 PM

the BOM needs to be pushed with the corrected BOMs as well. I made the changes in OCA and archived them so the BOM is still not showing the new parts. I will push that in a moment.

I'm providing @david.hall with one of the completed ones so his crew has an example to reference so we can keep this going tomorrow.

adam added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 4:18 PM

pushed updated BOM to branch

west added a comment.Wed, Jul 17, 4:33 PM

Insert drawing updated

Steven closed this task as Resolved.Thu, Jul 18, 8:49 AM

I removed 'test' from one of the gcode file names. This is now merged into master.