- User Since
- Sep 6 2016, 10:14 AM (157 w, 5 d)
Wed, Sep 11
@logan could we follow up on implementing this? I think the set screw worked fine before and will solve current issues.
Tue, Sep 10
@logan let us know if you push this to Cluster, so that we can identify the part on our board and make a place for reserve. Inventory will have to make a location for it also. I assume that it will be a part number change? We will have to check back stock and see when you want to roll in on the production floor. Also and updated OHAI?
Fri, Sep 6
@oliver Let us know in Cluster when the files are pushed and we will get those printed for you. @DaniAO we will need to get with inventory control to get Manufacturing requests done for Cluster and Presub, as all of our functions are driven by Manufacturing requests now. Please let us know what help you need o get this done.
Thu, Aug 29
@dylan we are probably going to end up reworking all of the cables ourselves. I would like to get a time that it takes to rework the cable, plus any material that we use, so that we can charge back to CCX. Please see if you can identify that for me. I agree, no need for a zip tie or anything. I think the short re-work time on these will be no problem for us as to the benefit of having the cables done and having the stock available.
@kim or @sherylb may know the PO for the batch of EL-HR0181 that we received.
@west , that is what I thought, which is why we are going to rework all of the cables that we received from CCX. I am curious as to what stops the cable from slipping in the braided shielding? which is why I was asking whether we need a zip tie at that point or not.
@draubach can provide a description of the cable received from CCX, but if memory serves, the black wire coming out of the EL-WR0157 braided sleeve, actually comes out of the HD-TB0075 heat shrink tubing at the top. I believe that the wire has to be free enough to be connected correctly, but if we want it behind the heat shrink tubing, then we would have to have a zip tie or something to keep it located. I think we need to see if the cables we received from CCX will work as is first, then see what we need to do.
@draubach can confirm but I believe that all of them have to be reworked for us to be able to use them. We are planning to rework all of the cables here as it is far easier to fix these harnesses than build new ones and have CCX fix the issue. We will need to determine what to do for future orders rfom CCX.
I would like to have the capability of printing them on Taz for reserve. That way if we are busy and Taz printers are not running, I would have the ability to produce them still. Thanks
@logan , after reviewing the issue with Cluster techs, it appears that we are able to print these on Mini, but the file will not work well on Taz, constant lifting. We can either remove it from the folder or do some slice testing to see what the issue may be with the lifting. it could be due to the large print area that we are transferring too much heat and allowing lift. It may be that a temperature adjustment will take care of the issue. Perhaps we can remove it from thew folder until testing can be done?
Wed, Aug 28
@paulette This is what @logan just found "This should not have made it past the CB test. The test will finish with this error, but proceeds past the "Press PROBE" step without human intervention. CB Assemblers/testers have been instructed that this constitutes a failure and to be more diligent through the testing process. The unit should wait indefinitely until that probe button is pressed."
Tue, Aug 20
Sorry meant Beta
Aug 9 2019
Aug 7 2019
Thank you @Shawn .Yes I agree, it is a difficult decision. We will have to see how we wish to proceed.
@Steven Just want to remind that these are printed with Glue Stick. We will want to determine final appearance and also we will have to get stock of Glue Stick in Cluster (which should not be an issue). Just want to make sure that residual glue appearance will not affect final product.
@Shawn did you think that one filament was easier to print than the other? Do you have a preference on which filament we use, COPA or PC Max, if we choose to make these in Cluster?
Entering in this ticket that we printed 2 blower shrouds out of PC Max and 2 blower shrouds out of COPA and installed them on Cluster WE printers last Thursday 8/1/19. As of today, there is still no sagging at all.
Aug 6 2019
We are starting on 100 kits tonight
I just looked up KT-MS0014
There is no BOM for it, so I can not see how many parts per printer.
@guadalupe please review this ticket so that we can see if we can help with this issue.
Jul 30 2019
I will get with the Cluster techs and make sure that they follow through on QC. We need the people installing them also to look at the print, a squished print will have a ridge/brim on the bottom of it. That way we can have more sets of eyes on the parts and will not get a bad part installed and make it to calibration.
Jul 26 2019
Point 2 above: Before anyone decides that Cluster will print these in ABS, a file and a test will have to be done. The Cluster pods cannot fit a Pro in the cabinet, especially with 2 rolls of ABS filament. In addition a print this thin will likely warp and cause lifting and a very high fail rate.
Point 4 above: Pro printers do not fit in our cabinets.
Jul 24 2019
We are going to change the EL-HR0181 and move the heat shrink 5mm closer, to 10mm of wire length? I am just trying to put together the lengthy strand of discussion here, so that I can make sure that our cable techs will know what we are doing. Thanks
Jul 23 2019
Just got into looking at this ticket. I take it the change of moving the heat shrink to 10mm didn't work. What is our plan now?
Jul 18 2019
Talking with a customer, he was having problem after problem with his Taz6 running Inova 1800. We swapped tool heads and thermistors and then finally went to another printer, with similar results. 2 Min temps and several thermal runaways until we changed profiles to nGen and adjusted the settings. Then the print would do fine.
Can we confirm this issue?
Jul 17 2019
We are already printing these and installing them on printers. We should have the "test" removed.
I am good with that suggestion. I don't believe that you will be able to see the white line once it is installed.
@EricNugent I don't believe that we did this since we have done the current reduction on the motor? "I adjusted the bed temperature and @Shawn replaced the blower shroud. The workhorse edition slices may need to have a max bed temp for printing in enclosures due to the size of the bed and enclosure conditions." T7793
It may not make a difference at all with the current reduction. I was just curious.
@karrad we have not tried lower bed temps. Printing production parts, I would be wary of "ABS lift". If you would like we could have @EricNugent do a part or two with a reduced bed temp in a "test" folder, then we could try them and see what they do. We would have to isolate the test so that we don't harvest any from there until we verify if lifting is an issue.
@Steven this is a good 10c lower than before, so that should make a difference. The biggest factor, I am sure will be that the enclosure exacerbates the glass point transition factor. I don't see this as being an issue with any customer use. We may just want to advise "Cluster" users to print fan shrouds from a higher temp material.
Jul 16 2019
I just talked with @Shawn. He is going to measure one more time when the printers start up again to confirm the present readings. Then we will have a verification of the current temps.
@draubach , @west I talked with @kim about the el-hr0150. She looked and said that we have ordered and are already receiving the Rev A el-hr0150. There are no orders for the RevB, so we should be good on this!
@Heather did you check on the EL-MS0235 ? Or do I need to ask Tom?
I believe that they are still finding drooping issues in Cluster. I will have to see
@Shawn would you check to see if the firmware is correct on them, and I will bring the thermal lead to measure the motor temp again. That way we can see if there is any difference.
After reviewing all of the information with Lupe, I think we will go ahead and us the sub assembly number, so that she can build ahead (est. 50) Then when the chassis is being assembled the parts can just be installed. This appears to be the way to go presently. I will re-visit this with @cmerot to see if he would like this to stay or change. Could we please set this up so that all parts are delivered to Cables at the Rockies bldg. They will make the sub assembly. Also @Heather could you check the el-ms0235, as it says that they have 40 at the Rockies, but they currently have 4. That way we can start on the installation of these in our chassis. Thank you
Jul 15 2019
@logan, sounds good. I do still think Presub will be a better way, just trying to make it all work!
@logan I will take a look at this and see what direction we want to go. I am trying to manage people, so that I can keep up with the needs of production. I will definitely keep your ideas in mind. Thanks
@draubach and @guadalupe please look at the last couple of entries here and see if you think that it would be hard to put the fuse holder together with the fuses before you install the fuse holder in the chassis.
I want to build these in Elect/Mech, right before they are installed. But let me think about that and talk to elec/mech first.
I think that a sub assembly is the way to go. @EricNugent do you know if we have the files pushed to the Cluster folder and is the 463 part in green (in the part name)?
@adam I meant to put this one in the bezel CO, Sorry, too many things going on.
If we want to produce these, have we determined color? if so, we just need inventory to set up the requests and then we will print off of those. @Kazkade please see if this is active and ready for us to print or not.
@adam this should all be the same part number, so we will need to know whether we want to purge backstock, or keep using the "usable" parts and just roll this in.
Jul 12 2019
Sounds good. Let's produce some and try them out and then start the ECO process.
@EricNugent can you get that pushed to Cluster so that we can test it soon? That way if it is good, we can get some going right away.
@adam we have 21 of the 5amp version printing now in Cluster. We will print 21 of them in green as soon as they are finished.
Jul 11 2019
Sounds great! we will get them done and over to @adam
Let's move forward with @tutley idea of redesign on the Bezel. He was going to work on that and we can see what the results will be for that. I don't believe that we need to do a redesign of the angle. It appears that this has been thought through initially and R&D has good reasons for the way it is designed.
@Steven my comment is that we have an expensive piece of equipment and we are already careful around it. If you think that it would be easy to snap off the usb from the top of a control box, then you should not proceed with the idea.
We can look at the redesign of the usb, but this is number 2 already.
@tutley , while I agree that it was a good idea for the angle, the current system is not working. You already have a tool head that extends above the top of the printer when it is at the top of the Z and customers know to be careful with a $5000.00 machine. I believe that this is a good idea that will solve the usb issue and we have too many issues in hand currently. I don't think walking by a machine can cause someone to snag a Usb that is pointed straight up on the top of a control box. I do appreciate the concern, but perhaps this is something to consider.
Jul 10 2019
Gotcha! @EricNugent , please let me know when you want a test of these run. Thanks
Please let me know when it is in the Cluster folder and you want us to print some. If you want a test done, please notify @Shawn and he can get a test run going in Cluster
I will be glad to talk to @cmerot about us printing a printed part for this assembly. Please, if this is what you need to make this go forward, design and give us an STL file to print. We will print what is needed for this in the Cluster. Please do whatever helps you the most. If you do wish us to print the part, let's get the part designed and a test group printed and then get it approved so that we can move forward on what you need. @EricNugent will be able to help with the slice and pushing it to our Cluster Fleet folder.
The old version is working. They had a number of bezels that did not have all of the "skirt" removed and that appeared to be causing the problem. We have over 2000 of these and they were still approved to work. I don't want to remove over 2000 parts. We will just have to get Cables to verify that the skirt has been fully removed before they install the Bezel. Then we can ask @tomc to see if we have manufacturing requests in for producing more of the new parts. Just a note: when I went through the bag of the 55 bad ones, there were some of the new Bezels in that bag also, so we will need to keep our eye on the fallout of the new ones.
If anyone wishes to, we can scrap the old version and start producing more of the new version so that we can keep up with production, but then the old stock will have to be gone through to isolate the old from the new. I definitely will not be able to accomplish that today.
Please let me know how we want to proceed.
Jul 8 2019
It appears that all of the prints we currently have are correct/ @logan went through the parts that we are using and confirmed that they are correct.
Just went and looked over the printers that were running this weekend. No fan shroud sagging at all! Let us continue to run the WE's and we will make additional comments.
@tutley , let me get with @Shawn and have him start the printer back up. @jlively is the weekend shift and did not make good notes on what was happening. i will see what Shawn finds on the printer and we will document it.
Jul 3 2019
I believe that we have 144 done currently and we are using James for other work today. I will have him pick up on the last 3 boxes on Monday, then close the ticket.
Apology, I was talking Moons compared to the Nema17 motors we ran before the moons that we are currently using.
Please let us know if we need to test a print in Cluster.
@west, do you think we still need to disassemble a tool head for inspection, or should we remove the tool heads, install new fan shrouds and then do the E960 change and monitor the printers?
@west I think that is the way to go. We get perfect operation from the Mini2 motors, I do not see why that setting would not work on Redgum. It may solve more than one issue, including motor life! (remember the Nema17 motor!)
I was talking with @karrad this morning about a customer with a fan shroud droop issue. It was suggested that the motor was getting too hot. I put a thermocoupler on our printers in Cluster and found that we are having a constant temp of 190f with spikes well above 200f (93.333c). This will definitely cause motor wear issues and cause issues with transferring that heat to the fan shroud. We should be looking at a firmware update to reduce current to the motor, thereby reducing temperature. This may alleviate the problem.
Let me know what you all think.
Jul 2 2019
I have my people in cables doing an MO from the manufacturing request for 18 that they are receiving today to do.
We have tried to refine the process for making the wiper pads. We should have better results. They are still cut by hand on a paper cutter so there will be some inconsistencies. Overall it should be better. Still hoping for a wiper pad change in the future. (wishful thinking)
This process has stopped (broaching in Cluster). We currently only broach with rod installed on the printer to be broached. Hopefully this will go away as soon as we install the updated file that has the redesign for the bushing positioning. This ticket should be closed.
The first 18 of these are done and going to cables for being built today.
Jul 1 2019
@jhan will be looking at the fan shroud and making an entry soon.
@logan, we will see if I have time to get to the printers tomorrow to install new hardware Loctite and torque the screws to 8 in lbs. We can get a new bottle out tomorrow and see if that helps.
@Shawn will not be here till next week. The loctite was applied to the threads and then screwed in. The Loctite should be fine at 90f.
@anolen I will have to look tomorrow and see if we have any droop on the M4 and M7, I assume you are talking about the fan shrouds?
Do we need to do a BHCS with lock washer? Would it even work on ABS?
@karrad Do you know if we have documentation on the process that we use to verify parts as we introduce slices to a new printer? That may be a good starting point for a QC parameters set up. I outlined above how we QC parts in Cluster, but having a pre established guideline may help.
I was just talking with @kent about taking 15 of the chassis and grinding the ground locations ourselves. This will allow us to build the 15 WE printers (our production Beta run) this week. I believe that we can use a tool that we have in Cluster to do this process. Then we can move forward with building the 15. We would need to identify who is capable of doing the grinding and get that set up so that we can get these chassis to Cable/ harness, to get the 15 built, so that we can move forward with this build process @bowman , we will need to adjust the timing of the production schedule to reflect the issues with the masking on the chassis.
Jun 27 2019
@logan, You expressed what I was thinking well! I noticed when looking at the Taz6 next to the WE that the space between the fan shroud and the bed surface seems to be less on the WE. Meaning that the fan shroud is closer to the bed surface on the WE than the Taz 6. This may lead to the concept expressed that the ambient temperature is higher than on the Mini and this is contributing to the droop.
I was thinking(may be problematic) that we printed the fan shrouds on our Mini's (in Cluster) from Village Plastics ABS. We have since moved to Chromastrand ABS. Is it possible that the filament change could be an effect here? We could print some fan shrouds out of IC3D ABS and see if we have the same issue. Just a thought.
Jun 26 2019
The photos above show that the bloom was still present. I have talked to inserts and they will pay more attention to removing this. As a back up, Lupe's people will need to verify that there is no bloom when thy assemble the chassis. @guadalupe please show your assemblers the photos in this ticket, so that they will know what to look for. That way we will not assemble the control box and then have to dis-assemble the control box again during calibration. With both of our teams paying better attention, this should not be an issue.
Jun 25 2019
We will update the ticket, just as soon as we have a couple of days on the printers testing the 425.
@logan , we have 4 unopened bottles of 425 in a small fridge at Bob's desk. So we are good to go!
I will check. If we don't have any stored, I will order 5.
I am ordering the 425 Loctite. (sorry)
@logan should I order extra for production while I am ordering one for Cluster?
@Shawn please get 4 additional parts printed, so that we can remove the ones on the 4 printers that have been Loctited and then install the new parts and use the 425 Loctite that I brought you. This will give us better test results. Thanks
@EricNugent can you tell me where we are at with this? I have it on my list as a part that is not ready to print. Can you please let me know if the file is valid. If so, I am going to run a small production run.
@tutley , I will be coming over later today. I will pick some up for this testing phase if you have it.
If we need to Loctite with the 425, then we will need to get some on order. I don't have it available here. We will watch the parts for deterioration and replace if needed. I will have to get an order in for the 425, then we can do any of the printers that have not been done yet.@Shawn how many printers have been Loctited so far?
Sorry, 220 to 247 range. We already Loctited the screws in Cluster with the 220 Blue Loctite
@logan and @tutley , could you confirm the blue Loctite # I show all the blues being in the 240 to 247 number range. We definitely don't want to go with too strong a Loctite. Plenty of experience with that issue!
@west Could you let me know if, or perhaps when the PP-GP0443 will be ready to run in Cluster. I need to do a run in Cluster as soon as we can. Thanks
@EricNugent can you tell me where we are at with this slice? Do we need to do a test in the Cluster? If you think it is ready for a small production run, please let me know.
@west do you know where we are at with this part? AS-PR0154. I am just looking to get a batch printed in Cluster. Do we have a file we need to test?
Jun 24 2019
difficulty in printing PP-GP0438. @EricNugent is working on the slice for it
Jun 21 2019
Please see for screw reference.
- Parts will have to have an established quality parameter. ie; cosmetics, strength .. and any other requirement that the customer will have. It would be best if one part is produced and then approved before moving on to production of a part. Otherwise time and resources will be wasted. This is where tolerances will have to be verified by a quality control, either with michrometer, ruler,etc...
- There will have to be a quality inspector/printer operator, That will be responsible to monitor the printers while operating for warp/lift, bead height, stripping, Z offset, etc. This will ensure that the printers are doing their jobs properly.
- Printers will have to be maintained by printing established calibration prints, ie; Z resonance tower, overhang test, dimensional accuracy test... This is the only way to get printer repeatability and part repeatability.
- You will have to establish guidelines for tolerances. Knowing the needs, layer height affects print time, speed of printer for the quality required affects print time, verifying that these variables are formatted into a plan for calculating cost. This is tied to point#1.
- You will have to establish how to verify files for excessive manifold errors and valid stl files, or you will get files that you will not be able to print. You will have to verify that the prints that you are receiving will be able to be printed, ie; that the materials can be printed together, have materials with like values in temperature (great differences in material temp will cause dual prints to fail adhesion to each other).
- Establish how you will track scrap.
- Packing and shipping of delicate parts will be a variable.
- OHAI development will need to be done with the support of Tech support as they will have the most experience with customer requirements and issues. (which should drive demand of customer needs)