- User Since
- Sep 6 2016, 10:14 AM (149 w, 4 d)
Thu, Jul 18
Talking with a customer, he was having problem after problem with his Taz6 running Inova 1800. We swapped tool heads and thermistors and then finally went to another printer, with similar results. 2 Min temps and several thermal runaways until we changed profiles to nGen and adjusted the settings. Then the print would do fine.
Can we confirm this issue?
Wed, Jul 17
We are already printing these and installing them on printers. We should have the "test" removed.
I am good with that suggestion. I don't believe that you will be able to see the white line once it is installed.
@EricNugent I don't believe that we did this since we have done the current reduction on the motor? "I adjusted the bed temperature and @Shawn replaced the blower shroud. The workhorse edition slices may need to have a max bed temp for printing in enclosures due to the size of the bed and enclosure conditions." T7793
It may not make a difference at all with the current reduction. I was just curious.
@karrad we have not tried lower bed temps. Printing production parts, I would be wary of "ABS lift". If you would like we could have @EricNugent do a part or two with a reduced bed temp in a "test" folder, then we could try them and see what they do. We would have to isolate the test so that we don't harvest any from there until we verify if lifting is an issue.
@Steven this is a good 10c lower than before, so that should make a difference. The biggest factor, I am sure will be that the enclosure exacerbates the glass point transition factor. I don't see this as being an issue with any customer use. We may just want to advise "Cluster" users to print fan shrouds from a higher temp material.
Tue, Jul 16
I just talked with @Shawn. He is going to measure one more time when the printers start up again to confirm the present readings. Then we will have a verification of the current temps.
@draubach , @west I talked with @kim about the el-hr0150. She looked and said that we have ordered and are already receiving the Rev A el-hr0150. There are no orders for the RevB, so we should be good on this!
@Heather did you check on the EL-MS0235 ? Or do I need to ask Tom?
I believe that they are still finding drooping issues in Cluster. I will have to see
@Shawn would you check to see if the firmware is correct on them, and I will bring the thermal lead to measure the motor temp again. That way we can see if there is any difference.
After reviewing all of the information with Lupe, I think we will go ahead and us the sub assembly number, so that she can build ahead (est. 50) Then when the chassis is being assembled the parts can just be installed. This appears to be the way to go presently. I will re-visit this with @cmerot to see if he would like this to stay or change. Could we please set this up so that all parts are delivered to Cables at the Rockies bldg. They will make the sub assembly. Also @Heather could you check the el-ms0235, as it says that they have 40 at the Rockies, but they currently have 4. That way we can start on the installation of these in our chassis. Thank you
Mon, Jul 15
@logan, sounds good. I do still think Presub will be a better way, just trying to make it all work!
@logan I will take a look at this and see what direction we want to go. I am trying to manage people, so that I can keep up with the needs of production. I will definitely keep your ideas in mind. Thanks
@draubach and @guadalupe please look at the last couple of entries here and see if you think that it would be hard to put the fuse holder together with the fuses before you install the fuse holder in the chassis.
I want to build these in Elect/Mech, right before they are installed.
I think that a sub assembly is the way to go. @EricNugent do you know if we have the files pushed to the Cluster folder and is the 463 part in green (in the part name)?
@adam I meant to put this one in the bezel CO, Sorry, too many things going on.
If we want to produce these, have we determined color? if so, we just need inventory to set up the requests and then we will print off of those. @Kazkade please see if this is active and ready for us to print or not.
@adam this should all be the same part number, so we will need to know whether we want to purge backstock, or keep using the "usable" parts and just roll this in.
Fri, Jul 12
Sounds good. Let's produce some and try them out and then start the ECO process.
@EricNugent can you get that pushed to Cluster so that we can test it soon? That way if it is good, we can get some going right away.
@adam we have 21 of the 5amp version printing now in Cluster. We will print 21 of them in green as soon as they are finished.
Thu, Jul 11
Sounds great! we will get them done and over to @adam
Let's move forward with @tutley idea of redesign on the Bezel. He was going to work on that and we can see what the results will be for that. I don't believe that we need to do a redesign of the angle. It appears that this has been thought through initially and R&D has good reasons for the way it is designed.
@Steven my comment is that we have an expensive piece of equipment and we are already careful around it. If you think that it would be easy to snap off the usb from the top of a control box, then you should not proceed with the idea.
We can look at the redesign of the usb, but this is number 2 already.
@tutley , while I agree that it was a good idea for the angle, the current system is not working. You already have a tool head that extends above the top of the printer when it is at the top of the Z and customers know to be careful with a $5000.00 machine. I believe that this is a good idea that will solve the usb issue and we have too many issues in hand currently.
Wed, Jul 10
Gotcha! @EricNugent , please let me know when you want a test of these run. Thanks
Please let me know when it is in the Cluster folder and you want us to print some. If you want a test done, please notify @Shawn and he can get a test run going in Cluster
I will be glad to talk to @cmerot about us printing a printed part for this assembly. Please, if this is what you need to make this go forward, design and give us an STL file to print. We will print what is needed for this in the Cluster. Please do whatever helps you the most. If you do wish us to print the part, let's get the part designed and a test group printed and then get it approved so that we can move forward on what you need. @EricNugent will be able to help with the slice and pushing it to our Cluster Fleet folder.
The old version is working. They had a number of bezels that did not have all of the "skirt" removed and that appeared to be causing the problem. We have over 2000 of these and they were still approved to work. I don't want to remove over 2000 parts. We will just have to get Cables to verify that the skirt has been fully removed before they install the Bezel. Then we can ask @tomc to see if we have manufacturing requests in for producing more of the new parts. Just a note: when I went through the bag of the 55 bad ones, there were some of the new Bezels in that bag also, so we will need to keep our eye on the fallout of the new ones.
If anyone wishes to, we can scrap the old version and start producing more of the new version so that we can keep up with production, but then the old stock will have to be gone through to isolate the old from the new. I definitely will not be able to accomplish that today.
Please let me know how we want to proceed.
Mon, Jul 8
It appears that all of the prints we currently have are correct/ @logan went through the parts that we are using and confirmed that they are correct.
Just went and looked over the printers that were running this weekend. No fan shroud sagging at all! Let us continue to run the WE's and we will make additional comments.
@tutley , let me get with @Shawn and have him start the printer back up. @jlively is the weekend shift and did not make good notes on what was happening. i will see what Shawn finds on the printer and we will document it.
Wed, Jul 3
I believe that we have 144 done currently and we are using James for other work today. I will have him pick up on the last 3 boxes on Monday, then close the ticket.
Apology, I was talking Moons compared to the Nema17 motors we ran before the moons that we are currently using.
Please let us know if we need to test a print in Cluster.
@west, do you think we still need to disassemble a tool head for inspection, or should we remove the tool heads, install new fan shrouds and then do the E960 change and monitor the printers?
@west I think that is the way to go. We get perfect operation from the Mini2 motors, I do not see why that setting would not work on Redgum. It may solve more than one issue, including motor life! (remember the Nema17 motor!)
I was talking with @karrad this morning about a customer with a fan shroud droop issue. It was suggested that the motor was getting too hot. I put a thermocoupler on our printers in Cluster and found that we are having a constant temp of 190f with spikes well above 200f (93.333c). This will definitely cause motor wear issues and cause issues with transferring that heat to the fan shroud. We should be looking at a firmware update to reduce current to the motor, thereby reducing temperature. This may alleviate the problem.
Let me know what you all think.
Tue, Jul 2
I have my people in cables doing an MO from the manufacturing request for 18 that they are receiving today to do.
We have tried to refine the process for making the wiper pads. We should have better results. They are still cut by hand on a paper cutter so there will be some inconsistencies. Overall it should be better. Still hoping for a wiper pad change in the future. (wishful thinking)
This process has stopped (broaching in Cluster). We currently only broach with rod installed on the printer to be broached. Hopefully this will go away as soon as we install the updated file that has the redesign for the bushing positioning. This ticket should be closed.
The first 18 of these are done and going to cables for being built today.
Mon, Jul 1
@jhan will be looking at the fan shroud and making an entry soon.
@logan, we will see if I have time to get to the printers tomorrow to install new hardware Loctite and torque the screws to 8 in lbs. We can get a new bottle out tomorrow and see if that helps.
@Shawn will not be here till next week. The loctite was applied to the threads and then screwed in. The Loctite should be fine at 90f.
@anolen I will have to look tomorrow and see if we have any droop on the M4 and M7, I assume you are talking about the fan shrouds?
Do we need to do a BHCS with lock washer? Would it even work on ABS?
@karrad Do you know if we have documentation on the process that we use to verify parts as we introduce slices to a new printer? That may be a good starting point for a QC parameters set up. I outlined above how we QC parts in Cluster, but having a pre established guideline may help.
I was just talking with @kent about taking 15 of the chassis and grinding the ground locations ourselves. This will allow us to build the 15 WE printers (our production Beta run) this week. I believe that we can use a tool that we have in Cluster to do this process. Then we can move forward with building the 15. We would need to identify who is capable of doing the grinding and get that set up so that we can get these chassis to Cable/ harness, to get the 15 built, so that we can move forward with this build process @bowman , we will need to adjust the timing of the production schedule to reflect the issues with the masking on the chassis.
Thu, Jun 27
@logan, You expressed what I was thinking well! I noticed when looking at the Taz6 next to the WE that the space between the fan shroud and the bed surface seems to be less on the WE. Meaning that the fan shroud is closer to the bed surface on the WE than the Taz 6. This may lead to the concept expressed that the ambient temperature is higher than on the Mini and this is contributing to the droop.
I was thinking(may be problematic) that we printed the fan shrouds on our Mini's (in Cluster) from Village Plastics ABS. We have since moved to Chromastrand ABS. Is it possible that the filament change could be an effect here? We could print some fan shrouds out of IC3D ABS and see if we have the same issue. Just a thought.
Wed, Jun 26
The photos above show that the bloom was still present. I have talked to inserts and they will pay more attention to removing this. As a back up, Lupe's people will need to verify that there is no bloom when thy assemble the chassis. @guadalupe please show your assemblers the photos in this ticket, so that they will know what to look for. That way we will not assemble the control box and then have to dis-assemble the control box again during calibration. With both of our teams paying better attention, this should not be an issue.
Tue, Jun 25
We will update the ticket, just as soon as we have a couple of days on the printers testing the 425.
@logan , we have 4 unopened bottles of 425 in a small fridge at Bob's desk. So we are good to go!
I will check. If we don't have any stored, I will order 5.
I am ordering the 425 Loctite. (sorry)
@logan should I order extra for production while I am ordering one for Cluster?
@Shawn please get 4 additional parts printed, so that we can remove the ones on the 4 printers that have been Loctited and then install the new parts and use the 425 Loctite that I brought you. This will give us better test results. Thanks
@EricNugent can you tell me where we are at with this? I have it on my list as a part that is not ready to print. Can you please let me know if the file is valid. If so, I am going to run a small production run.
@tutley , I will be coming over later today. I will pick some up for this testing phase if you have it.
If we need to Loctite with the 425, then we will need to get some on order. I don't have it available here. We will watch the parts for deterioration and replace if needed. I will have to get an order in for the 425, then we can do any of the printers that have not been done yet.@Shawn how many printers have been Loctited so far?
Sorry, 220 to 247 range. We already Loctited the screws in Cluster with the 220 Blue Loctite
@logan and @tutley , could you confirm the blue Loctite # I show all the blues being in the 240 to 247 number range. We definitely don't want to go with too strong a Loctite. Plenty of experience with that issue!
@west Could you let me know if, or perhaps when the PP-GP0443 will be ready to run in Cluster. I need to do a run in Cluster as soon as we can. Thanks
@EricNugent can you tell me where we are at with this slice? Do we need to do a test in the Cluster? If you think it is ready for a small production run, please let me know.
@west do you know where we are at with this part? AS-PR0154. I am just looking to get a batch printed in Cluster. Do we have a file we need to test?
Mon, Jun 24
difficulty in printing PP-GP0438. @EricNugent is working on the slice for it
Fri, Jun 21
Please see for screw reference.
- Parts will have to have an established quality parameter. ie; cosmetics, strength .. and any other requirement that the customer will have. It would be best if one part is produced and then approved before moving on to production of a part. Otherwise time and resources will be wasted. This is where tolerances will have to be verified by a quality control, either with michrometer, ruler,etc...
- There will have to be a quality inspector/printer operator, That will be responsible to monitor the printers while operating for warp/lift, bead height, stripping, Z offset, etc. This will ensure that the printers are doing their jobs properly.
- Printers will have to be maintained by printing established calibration prints, ie; Z resonance tower, overhang test, dimensional accuracy test... This is the only way to get printer repeatability and part repeatability.
- You will have to establish guidelines for tolerances. Knowing the needs, layer height affects print time, speed of printer for the quality required affects print time, verifying that these variables are formatted into a plan for calculating cost. This is tied to point#1.
- You will have to establish how to verify files for excessive manifold errors and valid stl files, or you will get files that you will not be able to print. You will have to verify that the prints that you are receiving will be able to be printed, ie; that the materials can be printed together, have materials with like values in temperature (great differences in material temp will cause dual prints to fail adhesion to each other).
- Establish how you will track scrap.
- Packing and shipping of delicate parts will be a variable.
- OHAI development will need to be done with the support of Tech support as they will have the most experience with customer requirements and issues. (which should drive demand of customer needs)
Jun 20 2019
@west I know there is a LOT going on. Have we made any changes to the screw falling out issue? Just checking to see if we need to install anything different on the printers in Cluster?
@karrad if there are any changes to be made in testing files for Redgum, they will need to be made in MER and then the file pushed and the original removed, so that there is only one file in the Cluster repo for the cluster techs to use. We will want that to go through MER always. Thanks
Jun 19 2019
Yes Adam we do have 3 or 4 more rolls of felt. Would you like @Kazkade and I to make more? If so where do we want them processed to?
Lupe, these are issues that are being seen. It is just a ticket to track and see what the larger issues are. We can go over it later, so that we can see what areas need to be assessed.
@MichaelM , this is a comprehensive list of issues. It is so that we can see what is occurring. I will have a highlighted version for you to look at when I come over today. Also I am working with MER to get a jig or two to help with the process. We will get this ironed out!
@MichaelM are we just holding that tool head, or is R&D testing it, or are we testing it? If we get this next one back, let's get with R&D and see if we can find out why this is happening. Thanks
Jun 18 2019
I am okay with combining the BOM.
We need approximately 8-10 more Hibiscus to replace the last Gladiolas in Cluster. Then we will have all Hibiscus.
Jun 17 2019
It appears that the PP-GP0438's have an issue with the file. The parts are coming out with a "honeycomb" appearance (will attach photos as soon as possible. Also a layer separation on one side. The PP-GP0236 appear to be cosmetically and dimensionally sound. The PP-GP0407's also appear to be good.
Please get additional test files for us to print on WE, and let us know when MER looks at the file of the 438 (I will bring some examples down to MER), so that we can get that part correct.
Jun 12 2019
@adam do we have a timeline for these printers to be in Cluster? We need to know if we are removing the 4 Taz6's for good.
The AS-PR0121 are reading between 1N and 4N, with over 90% being closer to 1N
I just realized after the long entry that I just made, that this was for the Taz Pro. i apologize. Let me know if we have a "bowed" part issue, and we can see if this is a printing issue on the part or if we have an actual design issue on the part. Please let me know what you find MER and I will see if it is something that Cluster can solve. The above drag readings were for the Taz6. I will get some current readings from The Pro part. I will check the AS-PR0121 and then make another posting.
This has been an issue with the Taz 6 for a long time. We are at the end of the production run for Taz6, so we are not going to do a part redesign at this point. If we need to, we can see if a minor broaching will allow better movement of the Y axis, or we can discuss a way to "flatten" the mated surface of the Y bearing holder.
This issue used to be dealt with by installing the bearing holders and leaving them loose, then moving the bed assembly back and forth to "center" the bearing holders, then tightening the bearing holder in an X pattern. I can only assume that either this method is no longer working, or that method is no longer used.
It would be time consuming, but possible if we wanted to use a similar method to the Pro X carriage, where we install a "broaching tool on the printer and move the Y bed back and forth to reduce the drag, while keeping the alignment proper to the Y rods on the printer. Just a thought.
Jun 11 2019
@west , would you mind when the drawing is updated, notify me so that I can print one for our notebook in Presub? Thanks
@west and @logan , I was just informed that we are missing an HD-BT0185 on the OHAI and BOM for this part. It appears that @wolffchadd found that Sharon was having to install an HD-BT0185 on the part once she receives the AS-PR0143. If this is accurate, then we need the part added and the OHAI updated so that it reflects that Presub needs to put that screw in.
Please get with @wolffchadd to get any additional information about this.
Jun 6 2019
If you need more from Cluster, @EricNugent can verify that we have the correct file pushed and just request the amount you would like printed. Then we can fit them in as soon as a printer is open.
Please try to identify why the ones they are finding drag on are bad. They are not reamed or broached so you will have to look for another cause.
@bowman , Rasy, got with me this morning and asked about why parts can't be broached ( en masse). That his work station is getting so slow due to having to do all parts with the method downstairs. I wanted you to know that we will see a slow down in production now due to the method needed to get the parts broached correctly. We need to get the testing phase of this process done quickly, as we have already tested the new parts for drag. We are going to slow final assembly down considerably now.
Once the parts are scrapped, we should be able to close this ticket.
Thank you for clarifying! We have the correct files. Closing ticket
correct parts are downstairs on @logan desk. All of the old parts were delivered to production. Those will need to be removed and scrapped. Please make sure that the old parts are scrapped before giving them the new parts. Thanks